Talk:England

Himaruya's Production Notes on Arthur
• A self-declared gentleman but on the inside he's punkish and grunge. A rainy island country that often yearns for the bygone golden years.

• Believes strongly in the existence of ghosts and spirits. Has a strange power such that even people who do not believe and cannot see them will be able to see them once they go to England. America is the exception.

• However, he makes fun of aliens.

• On the surface, he's a cynical realist. He's quite a romanticist before he goes to sleep.

• He's quite bad at expressing himself. He himself knows that people often misunderstand him, he uses this fact for self-deprecating jokes.

• He hates France. Although their rivalry is a material for jokes, he quite admires France's culture.

• He normally acts like a gentleman but once he gets some booze in him, he becomes an unstoppable, violent punk.

• The food he produces is quite terrible but he thinks he is quite good at it. He also knows that other people complain about it.

• His hobbies and interests are cooking, handicrafts, literature, punk rock, and giving scathing criticism on America's movies.

• He could easily be the most pitiful one in this webcomic.

• His temper was quite stormy during the decades after America's independence.

Culled from: http://www.geocities.jp/himaruya/matome_heta.html, translated by meh_konnyaku on Livejournal. Ceras SanMarina 13:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Official Profiles from Other Websites
(snipped from an anonymous edit)

http://sites.google.com/site/hetaliaindexes/simple-character-introduction England Arthur Kirkland, Age 23, 175 cm

A young man with an obstinate and sarcastic personality, who has lots of rain and was a former delinquent. He likes cooking but he doesn't have any repertoire, and his food isn't edible to begin with. He's good friends with fairies and ghosts, tries black magic and summoning and is a bit of an occultist. (Even though America calls them illusions...)

His drinking habits are strangely bad. He likes black tea and embroidery. Also, now and then he likes to paint portraits of of axles. There's also that one bit about how, ever since forever ago, he's been fighting with France.

http://myanimelist.net/character/14795/United_Kingdom United Kingdom (アーサー・カークランド, イギリス) A rainy empire that was once a pirate, now a gentleman (?) Was once a subordinate of France, but after taking the top half of France's land and getting violent with him, it's spoiled their relationship and now they're fighting buddies. As a former pirate, used to torment Spain and set up colonies here and there and everywhere. Was a pretty violent little boy. Is cynical, hates to lose, and is slightly obstinate. Seems to be cold at first, but is surprisingly devoted to someone if he becomes friends with that person. Has a real potty mouth, but is not a bad guy. Loves spirits/ghosts, faeries, magic and legends to the point where he has a list of spiritual residents as well as ghost tours. Also, is a nation that keeps appearing on the news for stupid sex acts.

Hetalia volume 2. Scanlation from Hetalia @ Livejournal. ENGLAND [Official name] United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland [Capital] London [Official Language] English [Birthday] Unknown [National Flower] Narcissus Rose An obstinate person with a cynical personality who has had numerous rains and was formerly a delinquent youth. He likes cooking but he has no repertoire, plus the fact that his food isn't even edible. He has good relations with faeries and spectrums. Practices sorcery and summoning which makes him quite occult (thought America says he's just hallucinating). He has a bad drinking habit. He likes black tea and embroidery. Also, from time to time, he paints portraits of axles. Since long past, he has always gotten into fights with France. Ceras SanMarina 21:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That little "Ireland" conundrum
I've noticed a bit of an edit-war going on in relation to the bit on his brothers, especially when it comes to the detail of Ireland.

What we do know: Himaruya did state that the other three brothers were specifically Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland (in a note about their eyebrows). Though England's very first profile (where he is listed outright as "The United Kingdom") states that he is the youngest of those four brothers, and the strips with the mentions of the brothers imply that he's the youngest.

But even with the author's word, this creates a bit of a problem since Northern Ireland (as people have pointed out) should technically be younger, as "Ireland" itself existed for a pretty long time and the division came in the 20th century. Are we supposed to expect that both Ireland characters would be twins, then, if "Northern" is counted as one of England's older brothers? The Japanese fanwiki on UK has some old notes by Himaruya on the other UK siblings (N.Ireland, Scotland, and Wales), but I've found that it's hard to translate them (and web translators are never too specific if you try and use those). There seems to be a question related to Ireland itself, too.

I kind of hope this issue will be cleared up in-comic someday, though I won't hold my breath too hard on that. I'd love to see both Irelands represented, and particularly as seperate characters (since it'd be too complicated to make them a composite character), with the Republic being the older one and Northern as the younger. It's possible that Himaruya may have changed plans as to the UK and Ireland age dynamics, but we'll only know if another fan asks him, I guess (or if anyone has good enough Japanese skills to request a clarification on their age differences in-series). Thoughts? Ceras SanMarina 03:21, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * For now, I think it makes more sense if, since we're talking about the United Kingdom (the territory, not the character himself), to write in this article "N. Ireland", in the hopes of stopping this useless war edit, and, if Himaruya only creates a "Ireland" character, not differing he/she from another "N. Ireland" one, we just have to correct this page and end of story.


 * But well, that's just an opinion. Hasu-hime 17:15, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. And "Northern Ireland" was what was originally listed here too, before this whole edit-war (due to the aforementioned notes by Himaruya). I can understand people being frustrated or confused by the idea of N.Ireland being older than England, but waiting it out is probably all that we can do. Ceras SanMarina 21:37, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, since I'm the one doing the reverses, I should at least try to explain my reasoning...

First of all, Ceras, I'm not certain that the constant additions of "Northern" are due to Himaruya's statement alone. As I noted in my last reverse, all of these additions are coming from UK IPs. Unfortunately, you can't rule out that an RL political statement is being made here. It's a touchy subject, and has been since 1690. This is probably the reason why Himaruya hasn't included a canon Ireland; he does go out of his way to consciously avoid controversy. I think the last thing we all want to see here at the wiki is RL politics intruding. The people upset about Hungary/Prussia were bad enough.

There's also RL history to consider, as you said, Ceras. Technically, there is no way that any Northern Ireland character could be older than England (unless that Northern Ireland character was, in fact, Scotland, which works from a purely historical basis). My suggestion is that if we leave in "Northern Ireland", let's pull the word "older" out of there. It's still canonically accurate and is now historically accurate. Most people's main problems with "Northern", including mine, were on that basis. We're kind of conditioned in this fandom to go by the rule of thumb that unless Himaruya states otherwise, RL history is canon.

Based on that rule of thumb, I think it's a fair compromise to have either "Northern" or "older", but not both. At least until Himaruya says otherwise.24.14.2.113 01:16, September 10, 2009 (UTC)